Sinners and Saynt: Torture Coutorture
There has been a lot of concern from our readers lately regarding our “indieness”. Some of you have stated that we’ve sold out and given in to the Net-a-porter machine. Some feel that we’ve become a bit too mean lately and are now alienating some of you. And other ass wipes feel that we’re no longer politically correct enough to be in their shitty blogger networks (Torture Coutorture)!!! To all our haters we have one thing to say, “THANK YOU!!!”
Your discontent for us fuels our fires and let’s us know that we’re doing something right. Because of our new direction we have shot up in traffic, now reaching nearly 25,000 eyes per day. In addition, we’ve gotten some more inquiries on our site and our business. We’ve leveraged our hate mail to get us an article in an upcoming magazine and it’s let me know that we’re affecting a shit load of people on the web.
We haven’t sold out (yet). We’re still looking to provide our readers with the newest trends, designers and fashion news. We’ve kept our opinions sharp and our views are clearer than ever. We have gotten a bit meaner lately but that’s only cause more and more idiots are trying to become fashion designers when they know they shouldn’t. We like to keep it real and not sugar coat what we have to say. If you don’t like it, don’t come to our site. There are over a billion people on the web and we’re not gonna cry over losing one person who doesn’t agree with us.
NOW TO TORTURE COUTORTURE
First, let’s backtrack. We enjoy writing back to our haters in blog comments. When someone tells me I know dick about fashion, I kindly remind them that the only reason anyone cares about them is cause they decided to comment on my blog, not the other way around, and that if they had an opinion of their own, they should get to writing something and leave us the fuck alone. Well in a recent post on Andre Leon Tally’s douchiest qualities Sarah Conley, a Coutorture worker, became offended that I used too many fat jokes in my post. I let her know that I was an asshole for saying the jokes, but hell, it was funny. Keep in mind that Sarah herself is not a svelte fashionista, so I could see why saying Andre Leon Tally was “too fat for fashion” might offend someone like herself. Basically, because Sarah commented on the post she was now subscribed to our further comments.
The post stood on the web for a few days and then I received this comment.
so i don’t normally respond to bigoted,nasty uninformed comments but thought this actually warranted a sane response…
just a few little questions
1. what do you actually do ?
2.what movies magazines or any other form of media have you being on recently
3.does anyone actually give a shit who you are?
so i think the answer to all of the above questions will be a big old no no no and nothing…
so before we slag off anyone lets take a look around at ones own life to see if its worthy
Now of course, this was fuel to my fire cause this was obviously a doucher who didn’t realize my glory (talking as Daniel Saynt right now so don’t freak out). I quickly answered back…
Let me bestow on you some knowledge of how shit works around here in Fashion Indie Land. Numero uno, this is what I actually do. We are one of the most successful fashion blogs on the planet. More people read us than all the international Vogue’s combined. Number two, I’ve recently been on the Tyra Banks Show, MTV, and The Travel Chanel bestowing on others my genius. Also, Time Out New York listed us as one of the top blogs of New York City, just under the Satorialist. I’ve been asked to judge numerous design competitions and my company (the one I started four years ago) has developed events for Maurices, Polartec, H&M and a slew of other designers and brands. We’ve worked with over 100 fashion labels and produced some of the most frequented events in NYC.
Does anyone give a shit about me? Try over 500,000 readers per month and an industry that has already marked me as one of the top upcoming influencers in fashion.
So am I worthy. Fuck yeah. Don’t be jealous, just accept.
Hugs and Disses,
Daniel Saynt
Yeah, I’m full of myself, but hell I’ve been working this game for over 4 years and I deserve some credit for the work I’ve done. Within minutes of posting I received this comment from someone posing as help@googleanalytics.com
Daniel,
No offense but I think you may not have a very good grasp on webanalytics. You can’t actually determine that you have 500,000 readers using any proper analytics program. Maybe you have 500,00 impressions a month (though your Alexa ranking doesn’t really suggest that you do) but that isn’t unique views. And unique views isn’t necessarily readers but simply unique IP addresses.
Before getting all high and mighty, realize that these readers may not even give a shit about you, they may be simply random SEO traffic wandering in off the proverbial internet street because you strung together something nicely that some Joe in Kansas had an interest in. Determining influence is a much more nuanced beast.
I would suggest having less of an attitude and simply working harder when a critic comes up. Blowing hot air may seem like a great way to get attention but in the end you have to have something to say that makes people think. This just makes people cringe.
Web Analytics? Alexa Ranking? This must be the work of some angry little blogger. Possibly someone who is a little worried that our site, which launched over a year ago is creeping in on her traffic base. Maybe it was from a blogger who recently held a conference on web analytics which was listened to by five people in her apparent network of 250. Maybe it’s a blogger that everyone openly hates and wishes would just disappear cause seriously, nobody cares about you. Bitch please. I think some people were forgetting where I came from, so I kindly answered…
We use Google Analytics to track our readership levels and our page impressions are much higher than mentioned. In addition, we have built a fairly influential network of bloggers which carry our content and have distribution through partner networks. Plus our reach through social networks like MySpace, Facebook, and our own Indies United is substantial with a reach well above a daily 20,000 mark. (We don’t count that when speaking to advertisers and sponsors, it’s just a bonus).
Alexa is a fairly inaccurate way to track unique views since it only tracks the views of those with an Alexa tool bar on their browser. Most young women (the bulk of our audience) don’t give a rats ass about Alexa and probably don’t know what the hell it is.
We do get a good amount of pop-ups from SEO which only shows that we are producing content that is of interest to readers. Terms like “Summer Hair Trends” and “New York Fashion” are fairly targeted search terms which get readers to our site. Our bounce rate has decreased by about 25% since February and many of our current marketing outreach plans should help us generate a more dedicated direct visitor (someone who types in fashionindie.com rather than reaches us through Google). Still an SEO generated reader is still a reader, so we’re very happy we have laid out such a successful campaign.
Basically, my background is e-commerce. I graduated Berkeley with a degree in Business and a minor in Information Technologies. Before Fashion Indie I was in online marketing and ran campaigns for Action Against Hunger and the United Nations. I’ve worked in my share of dot.com’s and have built the infrastructure for sites like Trendible.com.
I’m not trying to be all high and mighty, but occasionally we get dicks on our site who like to believe they know what the fuck their talking about. They don’t. We enjoy correcting them.
Plus, I’m a total asshole online. It’s fun to play a role a bit and make your opinion known. If people disagree that’s okay. We encourage people to write their opinions and regularly feature our favorite “Hate Mail”. Will we answer back? Hell to the yes. It’s fun to fight.
Please don’t think I’m trying to make people cringe. I love the bulk of our readers and regularly feature their lines and comments.
On a side note, who are you and why do you care so much about what we’re doing?
Within a few minutes of writing this response it became blatantly clear who wrote the comment when we received this email from Coutorture.
Daniel,
Fashion Indie has been removed from the Coutorture Network. Please remove any Coutorture badge currently running on your site.
We wish you continued success in all your endeavors.
Best,
Sarah
–
–
Sarah Conley
Holy shit!!! I tracked the IP address of the person who was claiming to be help@googleanalytics.com and the address was from some computer in Brooklyn, in an area that certain Coutorture girls like to call home
My theory is that Julie Fredrickson, the most loathed blogger in fashion, decided to answer back on my claims of online greatness and when I trumped her “Alexa” claims she became angry and decided to kick us off the network. Great way to do business. Get rid of one of your top bloggers.
Now it’s time to Torture Coutorture.
So here are some great Julie Fredrickson links for your viewing pleasure…
Julie Fredrickson Knows Where to Find the Best Lesbian Porn
Julie Fredrickson Tells Coutorture Bloggers to Fuck Off
And some pictures of her looking really shitty in everything she wears.
FAIL
FAIL
FAIL OVER A CLIFF
Seriously girlie, you’re in fashion, dress the part.
Also, here’s a quote in which she threatens to bash me over the head.
“Sometimes we want to smack Daniel Saynt upside the head….”
Okay the last one was probably said in jest, but I can’t be too sure these days.
About the Author: Founder and main dude at Fashion Indie, Daniel Saynt began his career in fashion at the tender age of 14, when he worked in the stockroom for some unnamed fashion whorehouse. His distaste for the mainstream quickly festered until he decided enough was enough, denouncing all mainstream fashion lines (unless the stuffs on sale or just down right irresistible or free, you can't say no to free).
sara | Jul 10, 2008 | Reply
the coutorture article on your styling job with dvf was so marred with their own personal opinion that i can’t help but sense their jealousy.
I_Know_Daniel | Jul 10, 2008 | Reply
Julie Frederickson is a brilliant, hard-working person who respects women and herself. You don’t even have a “real” last name. And the one you invented is misspelled. So…I guess they didn’t hand you a dictionary with your business degree.
Sandra | Jul 10, 2008 | Reply
Oh Lord! Here we go. Am I in High School?
Daniel. I am new to Indie. I love it. Great stuff. But your are, admittedly, offensive at times. Get over it. This drama has gotten way out of hand over some unthoughtful comments.
I know Sara and Julie, not personally, but virtually. I have nothing but respect for them.
In a case like this, I am bit disappointed in folks not taking the high ground. Pictures and shit talking don’t help bloggers. We look like amateurs. Or tabloid rags - take your pick. But this is not what I have come to know Fashion Indie to be.
But asking us to choose sides? Seriously?
And notice that unlike many bloggers, I do not post anonymously. Fuck it.
Jess | Jul 10, 2008 | Reply
THE MORE DRAMA THE BETTER!!!!!!!!!!!
saynt | Jul 10, 2008 | Reply
totally high school.
Maybe the photos were a bit much. On a side note daniel saynt is my writers name and it makes it easier for me to google myself (yeah I’m vain). My main qualm are the comments made concerning my credibility and sites success. We’ve worked really hard at fashion indie to give bloggers opportunities and access they normally may not have. We are one of the first blogs contacted for news stories and have always stressed the power of the indie publisher. We regularly express our freedom of expression and I personally find it disheartening when some who claims to care about online publishing sets such a poor example. I’m sure that many are happy on coutorture. I just feel that they should be aware that this can happen to them as well.
Sandra | Jul 10, 2008 | Reply
I cannot seem to find the comments in question.
The comment about traffic is a controversy many bloggers have - what are true and accurate statistics? Frankly, I don’t know which of my analytics to trust, because google says I shouldn’t be wasting my time and Webalyzer says I should be independently wealthy.
I was just a bit surprised by all the drama this morning (PST time here). Good luck!
Sandra | Jul 10, 2008 | Reply
BTW, I’d love to hear more of the opportunities you provide bloggers. I’m always in search of good resources!!
Trend de la Creme | Jul 10, 2008 | Reply
Daniel, you’re an angry bitch. That’s what people love about you. You don’t like something, you say it. But this isn’t a war. We all have to pay the bills at the end of the day.
Sarah and Julie are great people. No, amazing people. And when they don’t like something, they say it. I think, in fact, they are more like you than you think.
So, the smear campaign is a little much, don’t you think? You should be praising them for sticking to their guns, even if you don’t agree with them. Lord knows you will stick with yours!
Avenue Swank | Jul 10, 2008 | Reply
WOW, what was the time lapse on this whole ordeal?
Rebecca Alexander | Jul 10, 2008 | Reply
The time lapse was about 4 hours from when the comment came in from help@googleanalytics.com to when Coutorture removed us from their network.
Jeff Barea | Jul 10, 2008 | Reply
You’ve upset my boy Ryan Tate: http://gawker.com/tag/andre-leon-talley/?i=5024094&t=nuclear-smear-campaign-against-fashion-blogger.
That is not good.
Either take this fight to its ultimate level and provide the ultimate bitchslap by calling her Hillary Clinton or make total feminine peace.
Don’t be the wrong kind of bottom and get me involved again, ok?
Peace out.
Damon | Jul 11, 2008 | Reply
Cant wait to see you !
You # Fan !
dario | Jul 11, 2008 | Reply
this all seems a bit childish
Farha | Jul 11, 2008 | Reply
Such as.
Daniel Saynt | Jul 11, 2008 | Reply
While some of my comments were a bit childish I think the bigger issue here lies with the rights of bloggers and how those rights are being violated by certain networks. We all have to right to freedom of expression. We’re just enforcing ours.
trend de la creme | Jul 11, 2008 | Reply
Daniel, you live for offending people. Why get so upset when somebody offends you? Did you ask Coutorture to explain why you were dropped from the network? (Sarah and Julie don’t own Coutorture, Sugar Media does.)
This all just seems like overkill.
Chelsea Rae | Jul 11, 2008 | Reply
I find this fairly amusing…
I quasi interned for the Coutorture people this past fashion week, so I guess I can say I “know” them. I wasn’t exactly the best intern, so I may be biased, but I can say they do get a bit intense. They can be brutally honest, and even potentially inappropriate. However, I think when you want to make something of yourself, you have to not give a flying shit about making others feel comfortable. I also met you, Daniel, once during fashion week (you probably don’t remember and its okay), and you seemed really sweet, but being a Fashion Indie reader I know you have a vicious side. I guess I agree a bit with Jill from TDLC, that there was a bit of overkill somewhere in this post, but in the couple weeks I worked with the Coutorture people, I can understand how it is quite easy to get beyond angry at them.
Daniel, keep doing what you do. It always seems to bring a smirk to my face. Whatever your blog stats may be, I doubt your readers will care. I think you honestly have less need for Coutorture than other blogs considering how large Fashion Indie has become.
lim | Jul 11, 2008 | Reply
i’ve been reading your site for 1yr now and yes it can be sharp but I choose to come here and one day if it offends me too much, its very simple, delete bookmark. I dont understand what the big deal is but in the meanwhile I like what I can find here and its cool to have some alternative opinions.
also I stopped reading Coutorture about 1 mth after I came across it -last yr, it just reads like a very angry woman who never had friends and suddenly under the cloak of ‘online makes me cool’ is using her blog to be vindictive and mean spirited. I never enjoyed the read and have never gone back since.
Now i”m just a lowly reader in Asia who will never make an impact and not a minion sent by anyone to seed ideas but I just wanted to point out that all those who dislike any site should really learnt to use their delete buttons more.
Daniel Saynt | Jul 12, 2008 | Reply
Hey Jill,
We did ask and the response was that our paths we’re “diverging”. When we asked for more information, we received no response. We were really disappointed since we regularly talked about our association with their network and would always participate in any events or initiatives they tried putting together. This whole thing has left such a bad taste in our mouth and the comments they left on our post made us strongly distrust their practices.
We have maintained successful relationships with wonderful networks such as Glam and Web Snob. Our network managers are professional and whenever there are issues we receive a quick response and are treated with respect.
We have never received such treatment from Coutorture and honestly, the only reason we remained on their network was cause of their connection to Sugar Publishing. Lisa Sugar has always been a great influence on womens blogging and we enjoyed the idea of connecting to her blogs. Of course, we never really saw any of the benefits of connecting to them.
Honestly, a lot of this could have been avoided in Julie in general was a nicer person. Sarah is a complete sweetheart and what hurts me most is how some of my comments might be construed by her. Julie on the other hand is the epitome of “fashion bitch”. So high on her pedestal she remains that she forgets that most of the people in the industry dislike her. Pair that with her connection to fashion blogging in general and you have a lot of people looking at fashion bloggers as stuck up little nobodies. I have made it my goal to change that impression, but first blogs like Coutorture need to change their practices. It will take time to unseat someone like Julie from her position, but it is something that I and other bloggers know must happen before any of us can be taken seriously by the spectrum of fashion publishers.
My response to this matter was purposely sensationalized, I knew my post would get attention, and I used tacticts that were “childish” on purpose. Unfortunatley, for anyone to get attention these days in blogging you need to stoop to Perez Hilton style anticts. (Do you think Gawker would have cared if I wasn’t so extreme?)
And besides. Blogging is nothing like magazines. All bloggers have chosen to go online to express themselves without limitations. We’ve been compared to Fox News, which I really do love, for our practices and in the long line of blogging, I’m sure this first strike will resonate as the start of a change in blogging networks and fashion online in general.
Our means of communicating our message is not bitchy, or gossipy, or childish. It is the way messages are translated online, with back-up from other sites, visuals, and commentary from the site in question. We laid out the facts and while we were the ones victimized in it, we gave an honest opinion of someone who has continuously placed a bad image of the fashion blogger in the minds of the public. Hopefully this helps Julie realize that her behaviour is inappropriate and she will publically apologize to us and to all the bloggers she has slighted in her years on the web. Then maybe she’d get that massive stick out of her ass and act like a normal human being. (See what I did there, sensationalize).
On a side note, Julie, if you’re reading (which I know you are), stop acting like such as bitch. It’s getting old. We’ve been actively trying to unseat the fashion royals (Anna Wintour, Andre Leon Tally, and the other magazine hacks) for sometime. I don’t think we want to get rid of them to place more people like them in their seats. Take a page from other young, successful fashion types like Faran Kitching or Lesley Scott and try to play nice. We’re all heading to the same place, but when we’ve taken over we’ll be sure to pay less attention to folks like you. So be nice and maybe nice things will happen to you. Till then, I’ll continue to search the net for photos that make you look like shit.
Hugs and Disses,
Daniel Saynt
trend de la creme | Jul 12, 2008 | Reply
Thank you, Daniel, for your thoughtful response. I can see how you might feel dissed by the situation (Lord knows I have an ego as big as Texas) and that having your traffic come into question can cut like a knife. That being said, it is better to have your site traffic questioned than having your integrity questioned.
I believe you when you say you are trying to unseat the fashion royals like Anna Wintour and Andre Leon Tally. Just make sure you don’t end up being likened to them in the end. The ivory tower is a lonely place to be, and you have so much more to offer than “just being right” about this one situation.
Now, back away from the “Julie Frederickson” Google search. There is some indie fashion designer out there waiting to be discovered by you!
Hugs and creamy kisses,
Jill
Dino | Jul 14, 2008 | Reply
Where am I posting from then?
Dino | Jul 14, 2008 | Reply
I can’t get over how hateful this ‘torture coutorture’ thing is. After re-reading the original entry on the site, it seems clear that Coutorture needed to distance themselves from the loose cannon that this place is. And the way you’ve tried to slam them, good grief. You seem to lack any form of maturity. Sadly I won’t be visiting again to read any justifications. Those who endorse this kind of behavior don’t deserve my attention.
Daniel Saynt | Jul 14, 2008 | Reply
Dino,
I couldn’t agree with you more. If you don’t like it, don’t read it.
DS
blech | Jul 15, 2008 | Reply
1. this site is indie?
2. this is ridiculous.
Daniel Saynt | Jul 15, 2008 | Reply
We’re Indie in our views, plus we have a steady stream of Designer Discoveries and independent fashion trends. Oh, and yes, so ridiculous.
Runaway Gallery | Jul 15, 2008 | Reply
honestly daniel. don’t let the bastards get you down. the best revenge is success.